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	<title>Comments on: Chaim Potok as a Model for Mormon Literature</title>
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		<title>By: Chaim Potok as a Model for Mormon Literature The Red Brick Store &#124; My Site</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-1752</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaim Potok as a Model for Mormon Literature The Red Brick Store &#124; My Site</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-1752</guid>
		<description>[...] Chaim Potok as a Model for Mormon Literature The Red Brick Store   Posted by root 23 minutes ago (http://theredbrickstore.com)        Jan 21 2009 see also this discussion over at the red brick store which suggests using chaim potok powered by wordpress wp themes by bfa webdesign        Discuss&#160;  &#124;&#160; Bury &#124;&#160;    News &#124; Chaim Potok as a Model for Mormon Literature The Red Brick Store [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chaim Potok as a Model for Mormon Literature The Red Brick Store   Posted by root 23 minutes ago (<a href="http://theredbrickstore.com" rel="nofollow">http://theredbrickstore.com</a>)        Jan 21 2009 see also this discussion over at the red brick store which suggests using chaim potok powered by wordpress wp themes by bfa webdesign        Discuss&nbsp;  |&nbsp; Bury |&nbsp;    News | Chaim Potok as a Model for Mormon Literature The Red Brick Store [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adventures in Mormonism &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Finally: some Evangelical criticism of &#8220;Twilight&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-1001</link>
		<dc:creator>Adventures in Mormonism &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Finally: some Evangelical criticism of &#8220;Twilight&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-1001</guid>
		<description>[...] and does not apply LDS doctrine or theology to any of the story&#8217;s events).  See also this discussion over at The Red Brick Store, which suggests using Chaim Potok&#8217;s novels about Jewish life (The Chosen, My Name is Asher [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and does not apply LDS doctrine or theology to any of the story&#8217;s events).  See also this discussion over at The Red Brick Store, which suggests using Chaim Potok&#8217;s novels about Jewish life (The Chosen, My Name is Asher [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bfwebster</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-999</link>
		<dc:creator>bfwebster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-999</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Heaven forbid anyone put something out there where the Mormonism of the characters is just another layer of the story and is NOT the story.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m writing a novel right now where the main character is female, black, and LDS. The fact that she&#039;s black won&#039;t really come out until well into the novel. At this point, the fact that she&#039;s LDS won&#039;t come out explicitly at all, though someone reading the novel who knows that she&#039;s LDS will see some signposts along the way, both in passing references by the character and in some of the choices she makes and the things she says to herself and others. And the novel itself doesn&#039;t fit within the usual LDS fiction venue (think &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Powers&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tim Powers&lt;/a&gt;, though I claim none of his talents and skills). 

Besides Potok (who is a great model), you might also consider Isaac Bashevis Singer as a model for a different type of LDS literature.  ..bruce..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Heaven forbid anyone put something out there where the Mormonism of the characters is just another layer of the story and is NOT the story.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m writing a novel right now where the main character is female, black, and LDS. The fact that she&#8217;s black won&#8217;t really come out until well into the novel. At this point, the fact that she&#8217;s LDS won&#8217;t come out explicitly at all, though someone reading the novel who knows that she&#8217;s LDS will see some signposts along the way, both in passing references by the character and in some of the choices she makes and the things she says to herself and others. And the novel itself doesn&#8217;t fit within the usual LDS fiction venue (think <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Powers" rel="nofollow">Tim Powers</a>, though I claim none of his talents and skills). </p>
<p>Besides Potok (who is a great model), you might also consider Isaac Bashevis Singer as a model for a different type of LDS literature.  ..bruce..</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-997</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-997</guid>
		<description>Since DB carries the imprimatur of the church, it listens carefully to that &quot;certain segment of the Mormon audience&quot; and shies away from anything that carries the whiff of bad PR. That&#039;s why the ideal Mormon author is somebody like Meyer, who keeps her books clean of actual Mormons.

I also think Rameumptom is onto a very important point. It seems to me that &quot;arts &amp; letters&quot; Mormons often spend more time trying to eradicate the Sunstone-DB/Seagull dichotomy than defining it. As a result, they don&#039;t really &quot;stand&quot; anywhere. They straddle. Or make themselves safely irrelevant.

Mainstream Mormons want to be accepted by Mainstream Christians, and &quot;arts &amp; letters&quot; Mormons want to be accepted by Mainstream Mormons, and nobody wants to offend anybody. Where&#039;s the conflict?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since DB carries the imprimatur of the church, it listens carefully to that &#8220;certain segment of the Mormon audience&#8221; and shies away from anything that carries the whiff of bad PR. That&#8217;s why the ideal Mormon author is somebody like Meyer, who keeps her books clean of actual Mormons.</p>
<p>I also think Rameumptom is onto a very important point. It seems to me that &#8220;arts &amp; letters&#8221; Mormons often spend more time trying to eradicate the Sunstone-DB/Seagull dichotomy than defining it. As a result, they don&#8217;t really &#8220;stand&#8221; anywhere. They straddle. Or make themselves safely irrelevant.</p>
<p>Mainstream Mormons want to be accepted by Mainstream Christians, and &#8220;arts &amp; letters&#8221; Mormons want to be accepted by Mainstream Mormons, and nobody wants to offend anybody. Where&#8217;s the conflict?</p>
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		<title>By: Rameumptom</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-996</link>
		<dc:creator>Rameumptom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-996</guid>
		<description>I think for one to succeed in the Potok vein, you would have to begin with a fundamentalist LDS group, where individuals seek to live in the world of Gentiles and mainstream Mormons.  From there, you could go various directions: does the young fundamentalist, through surreptitiously educating himself, decide to become a regular LDS Mormon or a Gentile, or does he remain fundamentalist?

I do not think there is enough difference between Iron Rodders and Sunstone Readers within the LDS Mormon church to create enough conflict for the average reader to want to absorb it, much less compare it to Chaim Potok&#039;s Asher Lev.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think for one to succeed in the Potok vein, you would have to begin with a fundamentalist LDS group, where individuals seek to live in the world of Gentiles and mainstream Mormons.  From there, you could go various directions: does the young fundamentalist, through surreptitiously educating himself, decide to become a regular LDS Mormon or a Gentile, or does he remain fundamentalist?</p>
<p>I do not think there is enough difference between Iron Rodders and Sunstone Readers within the LDS Mormon church to create enough conflict for the average reader to want to absorb it, much less compare it to Chaim Potok&#8217;s Asher Lev.</p>
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		<title>By: Angela Hallstrom</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-991</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela Hallstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-991</guid>
		<description>Eugene, I agree with you to a certain extent, but you&#039;re describing the reaction of a certain segment of the Mormon audience rather than a mainstream audience &quot;familiar with Mormonism.&quot;  I doubt a mainstream audience would see your novel as heretical, but it was (obviously) quite threatening to a number of LDS readers . .  which surprised me a little, to be honest.  The response to your novel was a good reality check for me.

One of the things Busby discusses in the essay (not printed here) is the fact that Potok wasn&#039;t an &quot;insider&quot; within the orthodox Jewish community.  We outsiders might *read* him as an insider, but if a Mormon author had written the equivalent of _My Name is Asher Lev_, for instance?  I&#039;m certain many orthodox Mormons would dismiss the author out of hand.  Of course, Judaism casts a very wide net that includes conservative and liberal believers and everything in between.  Mormonism, in contrast, has a very small net, and the size of this net has ramifications for those who want to stay inside it and still create compelling literature that resonates with a wide audience.

I agree, though, that telling a strong story is part the answer, as is being mindful of the &quot;humanity&quot; of the novel&#039;s characters, as homeschoolin&#039;hen said.

MoJo, I agree with you that the apparent DB/Sunstone dichotomy forces writers into corners where they don&#039;t necessarily need to take up residence.  And our novels don&#039;t need to be primarily *about* Mormonism---I don&#039;t think Potok&#039;s novels were primarily about Judaism.  In fact, novels that set out to either prove or excoriate Mormonism almost always have a very difficult time succeeding artistically, in my opinion.

And Th., when I first received the essay submission I wondered if we needed another Chaim Potok discussion in Mormon letters.  But Busby does it so well that I believe it&#039;s a very valuable addition to the conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eugene, I agree with you to a certain extent, but you&#8217;re describing the reaction of a certain segment of the Mormon audience rather than a mainstream audience &#8220;familiar with Mormonism.&#8221;  I doubt a mainstream audience would see your novel as heretical, but it was (obviously) quite threatening to a number of LDS readers . .  which surprised me a little, to be honest.  The response to your novel was a good reality check for me.</p>
<p>One of the things Busby discusses in the essay (not printed here) is the fact that Potok wasn&#8217;t an &#8220;insider&#8221; within the orthodox Jewish community.  We outsiders might *read* him as an insider, but if a Mormon author had written the equivalent of _My Name is Asher Lev_, for instance?  I&#8217;m certain many orthodox Mormons would dismiss the author out of hand.  Of course, Judaism casts a very wide net that includes conservative and liberal believers and everything in between.  Mormonism, in contrast, has a very small net, and the size of this net has ramifications for those who want to stay inside it and still create compelling literature that resonates with a wide audience.</p>
<p>I agree, though, that telling a strong story is part the answer, as is being mindful of the &#8220;humanity&#8221; of the novel&#8217;s characters, as homeschoolin&#8217;hen said.</p>
<p>MoJo, I agree with you that the apparent DB/Sunstone dichotomy forces writers into corners where they don&#8217;t necessarily need to take up residence.  And our novels don&#8217;t need to be primarily *about* Mormonism&#8212;I don&#8217;t think Potok&#8217;s novels were primarily about Judaism.  In fact, novels that set out to either prove or excoriate Mormonism almost always have a very difficult time succeeding artistically, in my opinion.</p>
<p>And Th., when I first received the essay submission I wondered if we needed another Chaim Potok discussion in Mormon letters.  But Busby does it so well that I believe it&#8217;s a very valuable addition to the conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-987</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-987</guid>
		<description>.

Although hardly a new idea, I thought Busby&#039;s article did an excellent job at looking into why we are so drawn to Potok and the lessons that might be there for us to learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>Although hardly a new idea, I thought Busby&#8217;s article did an excellent job at looking into why we are so drawn to Potok and the lessons that might be there for us to learn.</p>
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		<title>By: MoJo</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-986</link>
		<dc:creator>MoJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-986</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And many Mormons will rush to prophylactically place any unconventional Mormon novel in that category, whether it belongs there or not. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Indeed.

You can have Mormon commentary &quot;fit&quot; for the LDS community either intellectual or not (read: Sunstone or DB/Seagull) and you can have mainstream acceptance via the veiled symbolism of science fiction/fantasy (read: Orson Scott Card and Stephenie Meyer) and you can have blatant sensationalism by people who have an anti agenda and/or don&#039;t really know what they&#039;re talking about and simply use it as a device (read: Godmakers or Angels in America).

Heaven forbid anyone put something out there where the Mormonism of the characters is just another layer of the story and is NOT the story.  We have to be completely unapologetic and fearless in putting our culture out there WITH ALL OUR CULTURAL WARTS AND FOIBLES if we want mainstream America to be as versed in our vocabulary and culture as it is in the vocabulary and culture of Catholicism and Judaism. 

That IS the ultimate goal, no?  

But why?  We&#039;ve been taught from the beginning that we must set ourselves apart and be a &quot;peculiar people,&quot; yet here we all are, trying to figure out ways to wiggle our way into the mainstream consciousness as &quot;normal.&quot;

Chanson posted &lt;a href=&quot;http://latterdaymainstreet.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this photo&lt;/a&gt; today on Main Street Plaza.  Oh, look what company we keep.

We cannot be at once &quot;a peculiar people&quot; and accepted by the mainstream. Because once the vocabulary and culture is familiar, we cease being a peculiar people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And many Mormons will rush to prophylactically place any unconventional Mormon novel in that category, whether it belongs there or not. </p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed.</p>
<p>You can have Mormon commentary &#8220;fit&#8221; for the LDS community either intellectual or not (read: Sunstone or DB/Seagull) and you can have mainstream acceptance via the veiled symbolism of science fiction/fantasy (read: Orson Scott Card and Stephenie Meyer) and you can have blatant sensationalism by people who have an anti agenda and/or don&#8217;t really know what they&#8217;re talking about and simply use it as a device (read: Godmakers or Angels in America).</p>
<p>Heaven forbid anyone put something out there where the Mormonism of the characters is just another layer of the story and is NOT the story.  We have to be completely unapologetic and fearless in putting our culture out there WITH ALL OUR CULTURAL WARTS AND FOIBLES if we want mainstream America to be as versed in our vocabulary and culture as it is in the vocabulary and culture of Catholicism and Judaism. </p>
<p>That IS the ultimate goal, no?  </p>
<p>But why?  We&#8217;ve been taught from the beginning that we must set ourselves apart and be a &#8220;peculiar people,&#8221; yet here we all are, trying to figure out ways to wiggle our way into the mainstream consciousness as &#8220;normal.&#8221;</p>
<p>Chanson posted <a href="http://latterdaymainstreet.com/" rel="nofollow">this photo</a> today on Main Street Plaza.  Oh, look what company we keep.</p>
<p>We cannot be at once &#8220;a peculiar people&#8221; and accepted by the mainstream. Because once the vocabulary and culture is familiar, we cease being a peculiar people.</p>
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		<title>By: homeschoolin'henn</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-985</link>
		<dc:creator>homeschoolin'henn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-985</guid>
		<description>&quot;Potok claims that “a novel is really a way of presenting a particular world universally. It’s about particulars, but the writer’s hope is that it can be crafted in such a way that will enable all people to lock with it if they are willing to invest some time and energy getting into that world” (Chavkin 155).&quot;

Great writing will draw the reader into the story if it is written in such a way that the humanity of man is addressed. While Mormon culture may be obscure to much of the world, conflict and resolution are universal and relevant, even though situational specifics may differ. While Mormonism may be &quot;obscure&quot; it is coming more and more to the forefront.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Potok claims that “a novel is really a way of presenting a particular world universally. It’s about particulars, but the writer’s hope is that it can be crafted in such a way that will enable all people to lock with it if they are willing to invest some time and energy getting into that world” (Chavkin 155).&#8221;</p>
<p>Great writing will draw the reader into the story if it is written in such a way that the humanity of man is addressed. While Mormon culture may be obscure to much of the world, conflict and resolution are universal and relevant, even though situational specifics may differ. While Mormonism may be &#8220;obscure&#8221; it is coming more and more to the forefront.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene</title>
		<link>http://theredbrickstore.com/irreantum/chaim-potok-as-a-model-for-mormon-literature/comment-page-1/#comment-984</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theredbrickstore.com/?p=354#comment-984</guid>
		<description>&quot;At the opposite end, readers familiar with Mormonism may expect a Mormon novel to be an expose on polygamy or cult-like corruption.&quot; And many Mormons will rush to prophylactically place any &lt;a href=&quot;http://eugenewoodbury.blogspot.com/2008/07/angel-falling-softly-uproar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;unconventional Mormon novel&lt;/a&gt; in that category, whether it belongs there or not. In any case, American audiences have proved quite willing to leap the cultural and religious hurdles in manga and anime as long they know that a &lt;i&gt;good story&lt;/i&gt; will be waiting for them at the finish line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;At the opposite end, readers familiar with Mormonism may expect a Mormon novel to be an expose on polygamy or cult-like corruption.&#8221; And many Mormons will rush to prophylactically place any <a href="http://eugenewoodbury.blogspot.com/2008/07/angel-falling-softly-uproar.html" rel="nofollow">unconventional Mormon novel</a> in that category, whether it belongs there or not. In any case, American audiences have proved quite willing to leap the cultural and religious hurdles in manga and anime as long they know that a <i>good story</i> will be waiting for them at the finish line.</p>
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